v1.84 - draft for initial vendor profile submission and community feedback

MK Vendor Trust and Safety System

for Keyset and Keyboard Group Buys

r/mechanicalkeyboards                              MechGroupBuys

r/mechmarket                                      Mechmarket

Revision History

All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. All company, product and service names used in this document are for identification purposes only. Use of these names, trademarks and brands does not imply endorsement.

Vendor Trust and Safety Ratings for Keyset and Keyboard GBs

This is a PSA type document based on available data, including user submitted information, which may contain inaccuracies or be out of date. It is not based on any financial or legal factors. Every GB carries inherent risk regardless of these ratings. Further disclaimers below.

Full MK Vendor Trust and Safety Tracker Sheet

Vendor Details can be found in the full sheet.

Vendors can submit their profile info for rating here

Trust and Safety Rating Classification Summary

* Every rated vendor (except D) always has a baseline of 3 permitted lead or proxy GBs. Vendors rated B and higher get a higher GB limit based on 2x the successful GB threshold for the rating. The # of additional GBs on top of the baseline 3 a vendor can lead is based on the % of successful lead GBs they ran. (See GB Limit definition below for examples.) Pre-orders are included in these limits. ICs are excluded from these limits.

** Failed in one or more of these commitments

Important Terms and Definitions

Vendor = A commercial business or individual that collects funds and fulfills group buys, and has submitted themselves for rating. The admin group may choose to rate select vendors who have not submitted themselves, for the purposes of PSA notification of vendors who are not operating at the same standards of communications and GB updates as per this system, or have failed a GB.

Group Buy (GB) = Sale mechanism based on prepayment model for future delivery of a product, where a certain order quantity must be reached before the order is placed. For the purposes of these ratings, a GB must be at least 250 MoQ for keysets and 50 MoQ for keyboards across all participating vendors (eg. lead vendor + regional proxies).

Pre-Order = Sale mechanism based on prepayment model for future delivery of a product, where the vendor places the order in advance. For the purposes of this system, a pre-order is considered a type of group buy and the terms are equivalent. GB limits include pre-orders.

Made to Order (MTO) = or "Rolling Fulfillment" is an ongoing sale that could last for several months or longer, during which time customers can purchase a customized version of the product to be fulfilled within a specific time. For the purposes of this system, these types of sales are treated as a single GB for each MTO product.

Interest Check (IC) = Mechanism used by designers and vendors alike to determine if a product has enough interest to garner running a GB. An IC is not an advertisement for a GB. ICs are not a check to see if you should sell existing items in your shop. ICs collect no funds, and are not a guarantee that a product will be produced. Vendors and designers who misuse ICs may have restrictions put in place on their accounts to limit future IC or GB posts on platforms. This system does not apply to ICs

Successful GB = Product is shipped to customers, with refunds provided to customers who did not receive product, and no mass evidence of failed product without plan for rectification (eg. scuffed keyboard case, non-working PCB, missing keys, etc.). A vendor who is the lead on a successful GB gets credit as the lead for that GB. A vendor who is the proxy on a successful GB gets credit as a proxy. GB Post limits are based on past successful proxy and lead GBs. See GB Post Limits definition below.

Failed GB = GB is unfulfilled and unrefunded within the lesser of 6 months of initial GB delivery ETA or 500 days from close of GB. Exceptions will be provided for GBs where manufacturers and vendors provide transparency on delayed delivery. It is possible for a lead vendor to be successful on a GB and proxy to fail, and vice versa. Failures are associated with 1 specific vendor. If a GB does not meet MoQ and customers are refunded, it is not considered a failure.

Regular GB Updates = Provide GB updates based on the following…

1. Vendor agrees to do email notifications at least on major milestones (eg. production start, received at warehouse, ship to customer, etc.) and any changes to delivery / fulfillment ETA
2. Vendor agrees to maintain current status of all unfulfilled GBs on some channel of their choice between web page or discord, on at least a monthly basis
3. If there is a GB thread on Geekhack, the lead vendor must provide an update on the thread for at least any major milestones and any changes to delivery / fulfillment ETA, AND at least monthly status updates, even if the update is "no update at this time", and even if a designer is no longer posting updates on the thread. (Note: there is already a Geekhack requirement for updates on GB threads.)

Keyset GB MoQ Sharing = At least aggregate sharing of MoQ and how many kits were purchased via GB participants vs extras purchased by participating vendor(s).

Customer Ticketing System = A published mechanism for customers to report an issue or request help from a vendor. Most vendors have a web form, email, ticketing software, or other mechanism.

Admin Communications = Vendor agrees to respond to platform admin group inquiries via discord within 3 business days. This is to ensure admins can reach vendor to confirm or arbitrate any community submissions Leeway will be provided for occasional slip or during holidays or other extenuating circumstances.

Response Time = Amount of business days elapsed before the vendor typically responds to a customer who submitted a ticket. Leeway will be provided for occasional slip or during holidays or other extenuating circumstances.

Employee Contacts = The number of full time employee contacts able to respond to customers and admins, able to handle financial transactions, and capable of working to fulfill GBs with access to inventory for shipping. At least 1 full time employee has to be at least 21 years of age for B or higher rating.

GB Post Limits = Maximum number of simultaneous GBs that participating platforms will permit a vendor (leads or proxies who are collecting funds and shipping the product to consumers) to promote or be listed on. Every rated vendor (except D) always has a baseline of 3 permitted lead or proxy GBs. Vendors rated B and higher get a higher GB limit based on 2x the successful GB threshold for the rating. The # of GBs a vendor can lead is based on the % of successful lead GBs they ran, or 3, whichever is higher. Here are some examples…

Example Vendor #1: smaller vendor with 1 employee

• Years in operation with no failed GBs: 2
• Total # of successful GBs: 4

• # of GBs they led: 3, which is 75% of total successful GBs
• # of GBs they proxied: 1

• Rating: B (threshold for B is 3 successful GBs)
• GB limit: 9 (baseline of 3 + 2x the successful GB rating threshold which is 3)

• GB limit for lead GBs: 7 (GB limit of 9 x % of GBs led 0.75)
• This vendor can lead up to 7 GBs or proxy up to 9 GBs

Example Vendor #2: veteran regional proxy vendor with 3 employees

• Years in operation with no failed GBs: 4
• Total # of successful GBs: 12

• # of GBs they led: 1, which is 8% of total successful GBs
• # of GBs they proxied: 11

• Rating: AA (threshold for AA is 10 successful GBs)
• GB limit: 23 (baseline of 3 + 2x the threshold for the rating which is 20)

• GB limit for lead GBs: 3 (GB limit of 23 x % of GBs led 0.08, which is < 3)
• This vendor can lead up to 3 GBs or proxy up to 23 GBs

Some temporary GB limit exceptions may be granted to low-risk vendors who may have higher than usual proxy GB volume, usually due to limited vendors or surge in outstanding GBs.

Participating Network = Vendors, platforms, streamers, and other entities who agree to participate in the MK Trust and Safety System

Trust & Safety Admin Team = a group of administrators moderators from the platforms in the Participating Network

MK Vendor Trust and Safety Tracker Sheet  = the full sheet tracking vendor ratings and vendor rating details, maintained by the Trust & Safety Admin Team

Vendor Profile Form = vendors can use this form to (1) submit vendor information for a first time rating, if your business has never been rated before, or (2) submit vendor information for an update, if you believe you meet the criteria for a new rating. This is not a guarantee of rating.

Vendor Issue Report Form =  anyone can use this form to alert the Trust & Safety Admin Team of potential vendor or group buy/pre-order issues that may impact ratings. This is not a guarantee of response or action.

Feedback Form = community members or vendors can use this form to provide feedback or suggested changes to the Trust and Safety System. This is not a guarantee of response or action.

How The Vendor Trust and Safety System Works

1. Inputs:

1. Vendor submits information to establish a rating and agrees to the requirements via the Vendor Profile Form
2. Anyone submits an issue related to GB or vendor that may affect the rating via the Vendor Issue Report Form

2. Verification: Admin group verifies information in submission, performs investigation or arbitration
3. Results:

1. Admin group updates vendor trust and safety rating based on verified information in the MK Vendor Trust and Safety Tracker Sheet
2. Participating Network (marketplace platforms, streamers, etc.) members ensure that any promoted GBs comply with trust and safety limitations.

Trust and Safety Rating Classification Details

(Badges are for optional use on vendor web sites or GB posts. Design is subject to change.)

AAA - Low Risk

• Completed at least 15 GBs successfully
• AND at least 3 employee contacts
• AND at least 5 years of operations with no failed GBs
• AND complied with the following…

• Regular communication on all in-progress GBs
• Provide online ticketing support system with at most 3 business day response
• Committed to communicating with platform admins within 3 business days

AA - Low Risk

• Completed at least 10 GBs successfully
• AND at least 2 employee contacts
• AND at least 3 years of operations with no failed GBs
• AND complied with the following…

• Regular communication on all in-progress GBs
• Provide online ticketing support system with at most 3 business day response
• Committed to communicating with platform admins within 3 business days

A - Low Risk

• Completed at least 8 GBs successfully
• AND at least 2 employee contacts
• AND at least 2 years of operations with no failed GBs
• AND complied with the following…

• Regular communication on all in-progress GBs
• Provide online ticketing support system with at most 3 business day response
• Committed to communicating with platform admins within 3 business days

B - Low Risk

• Completed at least 3 GBs successfully
• AND at least 1 employee contact
• AND at least 1 years of operations with no failed GBs
• AND complied with the following…

• Regular communication on all in-progress GBs
• Provide online ticketing support system with at most 4 business day response
• Committed to communicating with platform admins within 4 business days
• Provide MoQ information on keysets GBs

N (New vendor)  - Risk Unknown/Neutral: Building Reputation

• Less than 3 GBs completed successfully
• OR less than 1 year of operations with no failed GBs
• AND at least 1 employee contact
• AND willing to comply with the following…

• Regular communication on all in-progress GBs
• Provide online ticketing support system with at most 4 business day response
• Committed to communicating with platform admins within 4 business days
• Provide MoQ information on keysets GBs

C (Caution) - Potential Risk

• Vendor has failed to comply with one or more items below in the past 12 months…

• Regular communication on all in-progress GBs
• If previously classified as B rating, provide MoQ information on keyset GBs
• If previously classified as A or higher rating, Provide online ticketing support system with at most 3 business day response
• If previously classified as B rating, Provide online ticketing support system with at most 4 business day response
• Committed to communicating with platform admins within 3 business days

• Vendor may recover a previous rating by coming back into compliance with all commitments. Admin committee will use their discretion to determine re-compliance period and rating based on the seriousness of the infraction. While a vendor has a C rating, they will be prevented from promoting more than 3 keyset or keyboard GBs on the participating network (GBs that were promoted before the C rating will remain).
• The Trust and Safety Admin team may give vendors a C rating even if they have not submitted their profile info, if there is cause to warn the community based on confirmed delays in GBs and/or lack of communications

D (Delinquent - Avoid) - High Risk

• Vendor has one or more failed GBs (unfulfilled + unrefunded) in the past year
• Vendor may recover back to a N rating by refunding customers and progressively rebuilding their rating by being in compliance with all criteria for each year matching the years of continuous operation with no failed GB. While a vendor has a D rating, they will be prevented from promoting any keyset or keyboard GBs on the participating network.
• The Trust and Safety Admin team may give vendors a D rating even if they have not submitted their profile info, if there is cause to warn the community based on confirmed delays or failure in GBs

  ---

Participating Network

Platforms

• Geekhack, Reddit r/MechanicalKeyboards, Discord MechGroupBuys

• Vendors must be rated and can only promote or be listed on keyset or keyboard GBs based on the GB Post Limit in their rating classification

• Discord Mechmarket

• No GB spot selling posts will be permitted for any C or D rated vendors

Streamers

• Alexotos, Lightning Keyboards, Taeha Types

• Indicate if a product is being sold by a vendor who is rated
• Agree not to promote products from any D rated vendors

Vendors

• In progress (see acknowledgement section for expected initial vendors)
• On-boarding period will be defined for 30 days from initial public release of this document. Vendors who submit profile info within this period will be given “founding vendor” status as long as they hold their rating (D ratings are not eligible to hold founding vendor status)

Disclaimer

What this system IS

• A trust and safety classification for vendors who are running keyset and keyboard GBs
• Meant to be an indicator of potential risk that consumers should consider when joining GBs run by a vendor
• It is based primarily on historical performance of keyset and keyboard GBs, and other metrics such as longevity and number of employees
• It is a PSA/suggestion type document based on available data, including user submitted information, which may contain inaccuracies or be out of date.

What this system is NOT

• This is not a relative ranking of vendors across all products, and does not apply to commissions
• This does not guarantee that a vendor will succeed or fail in the delivery of a GB - it simply attempts to provide additional information to consumers to weigh risk
• It is not based on financial disclosures
• It is not based on any contractual or legal factors - every GB carries inherent risk regardless of these ratings

FAQ

Q: How does a vendor get rated?

The “Vendor Profile Information” form allows a vendor representative to submit a vendor for rating. This form must be completed by a representative of the vendor, with corresponding information to evaluate the vendor and an agreement that the vendor will abide by the requirements. If there is cause to notify the community of risky vendors based on confirmed delays or failure in GBs and/or lack of communications, the Trust and Safety Admin group may give those vendors a C or D rating even if they have not submitted their profile info.

Q: What if a vendor does not submit their information to get rated?

A vendor who does not submit information to get rated will not be permitted to post or be listed on keyset or keyboard GBs on any participating network platforms who agree to that requirement. It is assumed that vendors who do not have a rating in this system will be perceived as higher risk by the community for those types of GBs. If there is cause to notify the community of risky vendors based on confirmed delays or failure in GBs and/or lack of communications, the Trust and Safety Admin group may give those vendors a C or D rating even if they have not submitted their profile info.

Q: How does a vendor rating improve?

The “Vendor Profile Information” form allows a representative of the vendor to request a rating change, with corresponding information to evaluate whether the vendor meets the criteria of the new rating classification. The Trust and Safety admin team will review the information, contact the vendor, determine if the information is correct, and then update the vendor rating accordingly if the information is correct. See the Classification Details section above for more information on how vendors may improve their C or D ratings.

Q: How does a vendor rating decline?

The “Vendor Issue Report” form allows someone to report an issue about a vendor or GB that violates the criteria of the vendor’s current rating. The Trust and Safety admin team will review the information, contact the vendor or submitter to investigate, determine if the information is correct, and then update the vendor rating accordingly if the information is correct (with leeway provided as specified in definitions for certain criteria).

Q. Why did you choose this rating scale?

There were several considerations on the rating scale before we settled on this one. We had to pick a scale that balances two important aspects: (1) reflects the relative risk we saw based on the attributes of vendors who have failed, and (2) ensures that the perception of the rating doesn’t hurt a good vendor’s reputation. To that end, we chose a scale where “low risk” starts at  B, and there are several levels of A, indicating minimal practical risk profile while also ensuring that vendors limit their risk exposure in terms of number of simultaneous GB based on experience and number of employees. The scale can evolve in subsequent versions based on learnings from vendors and the community.

Q. Why doesn’t this system cover all types of GBs or products?

This system only covers keyset and keyboard GBs since failed vendors with the most financial exposure are ones who typically run multiple keyset and/or keyboard GBs. We wanted to start with a system that covers those riskiest categories first. In the future, the system may be expanded to cover other categories of products or services, which may require different criteria and limits.

Q. How are GB limits calculated across lead or proxy GBs?

The GB limits were created based on historical data and discussions with a variety of vendors and designers, to allow for GB promotion while mitigating risk of over extension, especially by brand new vendors. They may evolve in the future based on feedback and stress testing. Every rated vendor (except D) always has a baseline of 3 permitted lead or proxy GBs. Vendors rated B and higher get a higher GB limit based on 2x the successful lead GB threshold for the rating. The # of GBs a vendor can lead is based on the % of successful lead GBs they ran, or 3, whichever is higher. This enables regional proxy vendors to climb up the rankings without enabling disproportionate risk by limiting the number of GBs they can lead based on their past success. See definition of “GB Post Limits” in Terms and Definitions section above for examples of GB limit calculations.

Q. Why doesn’t this include any financial disclosure?

The initial version of this system seeks to strike a balance between disclosure/transparency and confidentiality for vendors. Requiring a vendor to disclose sensitive or competitive information is a non-starter for adoption, and also challenging to verify, so the goal was to focus on information that could be reasonably disclosed and vetted. We did have a proposal early on for “financial attestation” by an independent auditor saying that assets exceed liabilities (without disclosing amounts) as an option to get a higher rating. This is something we can explore with vendors in the future.

Q. Would this system have warned the community about vendors who failed?

It is difficult to envision a system that is both feasible for vendors while also covering all possible warning signs, especially as it relates to macroeconomic trends. However, this system was designed with some previous failed vendor examples in mind, to provide advance risk profile warning to the community. For instance…

• Mechs&Co: this vendor overextended themselves early on when they first launched, by running dozens of keyset GBs before any of them were close to being fulfilled, and in many cases using profits from some GBs to fund extras in another. If this system was in place when this vendor first launched, in order for them to promote their GBs on participating platforms they would need to apply for a rating, which would have initially been a “N” for new vendor. This would have limited them to promoting at most 3 simultaneous keyset GBs, until they fulfilled enough to move to the next rating, which would have been a “B” with 6 maximum simultaneous GBs. Furthermore, they would have been obligated, as a N or B rated vendor, to disclose how many kits were sold directly to GB participants and how many were extras purchased by the vendor. The community would have been aware that this vendor was attempting to run more keyset GBs than they were approved for, and with more extras being purchased from GB funds, indicating that this vendor was taking a higher level of risk. Mechs&Co may still have run more GBs that were not allowed to be promoted, but the community would have been far more aware of the risk they were taking. Later on, when Mechs&Co stopped providing updates and responding to customers in a timely manner, they would have been downgraded to a “C” rating, and eventually a “D” rating when they failed to deliver their first GB.
• Project Keyboard: The highest rating this vendor would have achieved is a “B”, since they were a 1-person operation. Once this vendor stopped responding to communications and providing updates, they would immediately have been rated a “C”, and then a “D” when they missed the delivery window of the first GB.
• Noxary: This vendor has had many issues with GBs in the past, and was actually prohibited from promoting GBs on Geekhack. However, because of poor historical recordkeeping, and the fact that many new hobbysits don’t check Geekhack, this vendor was able to still entice hobbyists to join their GBs. If this system was in place, this vendor would have had a “C” or “D” rating based on past performance and ongoing GB delays.

Q: Are group buys bad or should they be avoided?

Group buys (GBs) are not inherently “bad”, they are simply a business model for bringing a product to market. Many keyboard or keyset projects are targeted to niche groups of hobbyists, and are not always feasible to pre-purchase and sell as in-stock items. Group buys were used for almost every project in the early days of the mechanical keyboard hobby, and still serve a purpose for many projects, especially for smaller vendors or individual hobbyists.

That said, please do your due diligence before joining any GB. All GBs have inherent risk due to unforeseen manufacturing, shipping, or other issues. This MK Vendor Trust and Safety System is one way to gauge the historical reliability of a vendor who is running a GB, but it is not a guarantee of future success.

Q: Who is the Trust and Safety Admin Team?

The admin team is composed of mods from various platforms. See Contributors section below.

Q: Can we share feedback or propose changes to the Trust and Safety System?

The “Feedback Form” allows community members or vendors to provide feedback or suggested changes to the Trust and Safety System. The admin group will review feedback and discuss potential changes for feasibility with vendors. Once changes are deemed feasible and an improvement to the system, updates will be made to a new version of this doc.

Q. Is this system being used to promote any vendors using affiliate links or other methods for financial benefit?

No. There are no financial or monetary aspects of this system. It is run on a voluntary basis.

Items for Future Consideration

The following items were proposed by vendors or members during the feedback process, and may be items considered for future revisions pending vendor feasibility discussions…

• Business registration link (eg. DUNS number)
• Business address / location of warehouse
• Financial attestation on aggregate asset vs liability
• Owner(s) background check
• Separate ratings for proxy versus lead vendors to accommodate for nuances
• Allowing new N rated vendors to achieve a B rating with smaller MoQ GBs
• Run periodic community surveys to gather feedback on vendors
• Provide a centralized, publicly visible place for vendors to update GB status
• Have a “vendor backup network” system for vendors in case they fail
• Have new vendors provide backup customer lists in case GBs need to be recovered

Contributors and Acknowledgements

Sincere thanks to all the vendors, streamers and community members who reviewed and provided feedback, and help support this initiative:

• AKB (UK keyboard designer/vendor)
• Alexotos (streamer)
• Cannon Keys (US vendor)
• Click Clack (US vendor)
• Cobertt* (moderator: r/MechanicalKeyboards, Discord MechGroupBuys)
• Daily Clack (AU vendor)
• Deadbolt* (moderator: r/MechanicalKeyboards, r/mechmarket)
• Deskhero (CA vendor)
• Drop (US vendor)
• eskimojo (and dvorcol) for historical keyset GB data from KeycapLendar
• Hickneller (moderator: Mechkeys)
• HoffmanMyster* (moderator: Geekhack, affiliated with Drop/Corsair)
• KLC Hobbyists' Playground (KR vendor)
• Lightning (streamer)
• Mekibo (US vendor)
• MONOKEI (SG vendor)
• Nephlock (keyset designer)
• NovelKeys (US vendor)
• Oblotzky (EU vendor, designer)
• Omnias* (moderator: r/MechanicalKeyboards, r/mechmarket, Discord Mechmarket)
• Omnitype (US vendor)
• Prototypist (UK vendor)
• PhantomTaco (keyset designer)
• pwade3 (keyset designer, moderator: Discord mechkeys)
• rmendis* (moderator: Discord mechmarket)
• Switchmod (US vendor)
• Taeha Types (streamer)
• zacheadams (member)

* Trust & Safety Admin Team Member